Jay Shell is joined for a two-part interview by Dr. Joe Scalia, who holds a Doctor of Psychoanalysis degree (a Psya.D.) in Psychoanalysis, Society, and Culture. He maintains a private practice of psychoanalysis in Livingston, Montana. Dr. Scalia is the President of Gallatin Yellowstone Wilderness Alliance, and a former president of Montana Wilderness Association. His environmental criticism and conservation writings and interviews have appeared regularly in CounterPunch, Mountain Journal, numerous Montana newspapers, Wilderness Podcast and Rendering Unconscious.