Karen Greenberg is a noted expert on national security, terrorism and civil liberties. She founded and is Director of The Center on National Security at Fordham University.

Her 2016 book, Rogue Justice:The Making of the Security State, explored the War on Terror’s impact on justice and law in America. Her latest book, SUBTLE TOOLS: The Dismantling of American Democracy from the War on Terror to Donald Trump, is published by Princeton University Press.

We spoke with Karen Greenberg on January 7, 2022, one year and a day after a momentarily united, completely bipartisan Congress, fled in fear for their lives from a mob, who had violently invaded the capitol, preventing the fulfillment of their obligation under the Electoral Count Act of 1887 to meet to count the electoral votes of the 2020 presidential election on January 6. They were prevented from doing so until January 7, one year to the day that Karen Greenberg and I spoke.